176

Re: NL5 Full Ring

Sad tek vidim graf...
Imaš još takvih primjera?
Zanimalo bi me to detaljnije proučiti...

00

177

Re: NL5 Full Ring

Gore sam ti stavio najjednostavniji primjer.

Ovdje imaš link http://www.evplusplus.com/poker_tools/v … simulator/ pa se malo igraj.

Napomenuo bi ti samo da ne tražiš izlike u tome da si u downswingu ako trenutno gubiš. Bez obzira da li gubiš ili dobivaš uvijek moraš raditi na svojoj igri jer nikada nečeš doći do stupnja da znaš sve i da ti napredak nije potreban, da si otporan na tilt itd. Osim toga, ponekada je teško procijeniti da li je problem u lošoj igri, bad run-u, tilt-u ili kombinacija svega navedenoga i uz to utjecaj nečeg trećeg itd. Treba uvijek težiti tome da igraš A game, a na varijancu ionako ne možeš utjecati pa niti nema smisla previše se njome opterečivati. Ako si hand odigrao maksimalno +EV, ništa više nisi mogao napraviti.

|^^^^^^^^^^^ | |
|    JackDaniel's     | |"|\,_____
|_..._...___===|=||_|__|.., ]
(@)'(@)"""*| (@)(@)*****(@)
00

178

Re: NL5 Full Ring

Ne, definitivno se ne želim opravdavati, ali nisam imao pojma da je moguće imati toliki downswing.
Da se sad ovo ne pretvori u moj topic (uostalom nedavno sam otvorio baš jedan ovakav u Ostale rasprave), ali definitivno je tilt jedan od mojih većih problema u žešćem dowswingu, a manifestira se u općoj paranoji (iscallat ću puno toga što ne bih smio jer ne vjerujem da toliko često villani mogu imati tako snažan holding, pa me strah da me ne exploitaju blefovima - iskreno, ne znam kako se boriti protiv ovog  hmm  ali dobro)

Hvala za tool wink

00

179

Re: NL5 Full Ring

Pa o tome ti govorim, ne možeš uspoređivati downswing sa tiltom. Downsing je kada odigravaš +EV poteze ali je rezultat trenutno negativan za tebe. Downswing nije kada izgubiš 4-5BI i onda stiltaš još toliko. Swingovi od 4-5BI po sessionu su sasvim normalni i tu nema priče o downswingu. Ljudi često to krivo tumače.
Šta se tiče ovoga da villaini ne mogu toliko često imati snažan holding, to je isto zabluda. Karte ne pamte koji je hand villain imao prije ovoga kojeg sada odigravate. Ishod pojedinačnog handa se sa matematičke strane uvijek gleda neovisno o handu prije/poslije. Ako si 20 puta za redom imao flush draw na flopu i nijednom ti nije došao na riveru, vjerojatnost da češ 21. put pogoditi flush je ista kao i šta je bila svih prethodnih 20 puta. Tebi je cilj da u svakom handu villaina postaviš na range i sukladno tome odigraš maksimalno +EV.

|^^^^^^^^^^^ | |
|    JackDaniel's     | |"|\,_____
|_..._...___===|=||_|__|.., ]
(@)'(@)"""*| (@)(@)*****(@)
00

180

Re: NL5 Full Ring

Ma da, kužim to.
Dakle, 4-5 bi je normalno izgubit po sessionu. Ok, evo recimo ovakvi podaci mi dosta znače.
Ja ako izgubim 4-5 legitimnih all inova zaredom, spreman sam ići egzorcistu. Bez zajebancije smile


Inače, kolki bb/100 imaju odlični igrači, a kolki recimo osrednji, ono što bi se smatralo good regularima?
Jel ima neka tablica i za to? big_smile

00

181

Re: NL5 Full Ring

Teško je dati odgovor na takvo pitanje. Ovisi o limitu i broju stolova najviše. Ali svaki +bb/100 je dobar smile Za NL10- mislim da dvoznamenasti wr ne bi trebao biti problem za dobrog regulara.

|^^^^^^^^^^^ | |
|    JackDaniel's     | |"|\,_____
|_..._...___===|=||_|__|.., ]
(@)'(@)"""*| (@)(@)*****(@)
00

182

Re: NL5 Full Ring

Kad odigras dovoljno handova i dozivis par dana uzastopno po 20bi ispod EV i sl., dobro naucis vaznost velikog BRa. Mozda sam nit ali meni je sve ispod 100BI shot taking. Ako si pro i ne zelis se nikad spustat vise na nizi limit, 100BI. (NL50 i iznad bar, treba se sto prije izvuc s nano limita, a i WR bi trebao bit veci pa time i manji variance.. s tim da te EV ne pita za WR  roll )

Prijavi se na PokerPro Coaching
00

183

Re: NL5 Full Ring

TVex napisao:

Ma da, kužim to.
Dakle, 4-5 bi je normalno izgubit po sessionu. Ok, evo recimo ovakvi podaci mi dosta znače.
Ja ako izgubim 4-5 legitimnih all inova zaredom, spreman sam ići egzorcistu. Bez zajebancije smile


Inače, kolki bb/100 imaju odlični igrači, a kolki recimo osrednji, ono što bi se smatralo good regularima?
Jel ima neka tablica i za to? big_smile

Pogledaj na PTR top winnere pa ces vidjet otprilike. Danas je sve iznad 0 super. I primjetit ces da veci limiti imaju vece winrate u prosjeku. Razlog je jer je rake na niskim limitima wr killer. IMO gledaj si hourly i ak si zadovoljan s tim za svoje standarde, super.

Prijavi se na PokerPro Coaching
00

184

Re: NL5 Full Ring

i svaki put isto, pa to je nevjerovatno
koliko god puta ja cuo da je ovo dobar play duplo vise puta spusim na isti nacin
lik igra 83-10

____________________                  

Holdem Manager, No-Limit Hold'em Ring
Small Blind: $0.02
Big Blind: $0.04

MP ($4)
CO ($3.4)
BTN ($5.18)
SB ($5.27)
BB (idrgaHRV) ($5.08)
UTG ($8.92)

Dealt to BB (idrgaHRV)
http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/QD.png http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/QS.png

Preflop: (Pot is: $0.06)

UTG & MP fold, CO calls $0.04, BTN & SB fold, BB (idrgaHRV) raises to $0.2, CO calls $0.16

Flop: (Pot is $0.42, 2 players)

http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/8S.png http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/5S.png http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/8H.png
BB (idrgaHRV) bets $0.32, CO raises to $3.2 (All-In), BB (idrgaHRV) calls $2.88

Turn: (Pot is $6.82, 2 players, 1 all-in)

http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/8S.png http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/5S.png http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/8H.png    http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/AH.png

River: (Pot is $6.82, 2 players, 1 all-in)

http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/8S.png http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/5S.png http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/8H.png http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/AH.png   http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/JD.png

Showdown:
CO shows
http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/9C.png http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/8D.png
(Three of a Kind, Eights)

BB (idrgaHRV) has
http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/QD.png http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/QS.png
(Two Pair, Queens and Eights)

                                                                     
Total Pot: $6.82 | Rake: $0.1

Winners:
CO wins $6.72




00

185

Re: NL5 Full Ring

gmiko napisao:

IMO gledaj si hourly

ovo. dobar je orjentir gledati bb/100, ali je i malkoc neprecizno s obzirom da ne znamo koliko stolova igraju ti igraci. netko tko ima 10bb/100 na 4 stola zaradjuje manje nego netko tko ima 5bb/100 na recimo 10+ stolova.

Small stakes poker is like your birthday: everyone calls you, which is supposed to be nice, but it ends up getting annoying.
00

186

Re: NL5 Full Ring

lik na 94 handa igra 23-18 AF 12 AF flop 9
zanimam me da li je ispravno ovdje zgurati se?
kad me min raisao pretpostavio sam da set ili cak overpar

____________________                  

Holdem Manager, No-Limit Hold'em Ring
Small Blind: $0.02
Big Blind: $0.04

BTN ($5.64)
SB ($4.02)
BB (idrgaHRV) ($4.23)
UTG ($4.18)
CO ($5.36)

Dealt to BB (idrgaHRV)
http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/JC.png http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/TC.png

Preflop: (Pot is: $0.06)

UTG folds, CO calls $0.04, BTN raises to $0.2, SB calls $0.18, BB (idrgaHRV) calls $0.16, CO calls $0.16

Flop: (Pot is $0.8, 4 players)

http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/TD.png http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/6C.png http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/8C.png
SB checks, BB (idrgaHRV) bets $0.4, CO folds, BTN raises to $1.2, SB folds, BB (idrgaHRV) raises to $3.99, BTN calls $2.79

Turn: (Pot is $8.78, 2 players)


River: (Pot is $8.78, 2 players)


                                                                     
Total Pot: $8.78 | Rake: $8.78




00

187

Re: NL5 Full Ring

Di je minrejz?
Zašt si leadao flop ak ne misliš 3bet shipat?

Uglavnom, ispravno je. Protiv seta si ok, s overparom flip, beataš sve druge drawove i tu i tamo ces dobit fold.
Foldaj preflop ak se ne osjećaš ugodno na ovom boardu.

Prijavi se na PokerPro Coaching
10

188

Re: NL5 Full Ring

gmiko napisao:

Di je minrejz?
Zašt si leadao flop ak ne misliš 3bet shipat?

Uglavnom, ispravno je. Protiv seta si ok, s overparom flip, beataš sve druge drawove i tu i tamo ces dobit fold.
Foldaj preflop ak se ne osjećaš ugodno na ovom boardu.

sorry, danas sam dosta igrao pa mi se vec prividaju stvari...ajd bar netko da odgovori tu
i mislio sam shipati samo me zanimalo jel to ok protiv njegovog suzenog rangea....lik je pokazao AA

00

189

Re: NL5 Full Ring

ne znam jel u ovom spotu to instant call???
lik na 45 handova igra 71-31 af 4,8

____________________                  

Holdem Manager, No-Limit Hold'em Ring
Small Blind: $0.02
Big Blind: $0.04

UTG (idrgaHRV) ($4)
BTN ($5.54)
SB ($4.46)
BB ($4)

Dealt to UTG (idrgaHRV)
http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/QS.png http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/AH.png

Preflop: (Pot is: $0.06)

UTG (idrgaHRV) raises to $0.16, BTN calls $0.16, SB & BB fold

Flop: (Pot is $0.38, 2 players)

http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/4H.png http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/3H.png http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/6H.png
UTG (idrgaHRV) bets $0.28, BTN raises to $5.38 (All-In)

Turn: (Pot is $6.04, 2 players, 1 all-in)


River: (Pot is $6.04, 2 players, 1 all-in)


                                                                     
Total Pot: $6.04 | Rake: $6.04




00

190

Re: NL5 Full Ring

nije baš instant jer si rijetko gro ispred njega, al imaš jako dobar equity vs 1pair, 1pair fd tip handova,OESD tip handova itd..a manje dobar vs. setova i flusheva. Možeš pričekat bolji spot, nikud ti se ne žuri. Jbga, istekao mi očito stove, poigraj se malo postocima da vidiš kak stojiš vs čega..

Nowdays, at financial crisis, I dont give people to much kredit for second and third barrel!
00

191

Re: NL5 Full Ring

idrga napisao:

ne znam jel u ovom spotu to instant call???
lik na 45 handova igra 71-31 af 4,8

Insta fold prije. smile
Nisi nikad dead obv, ali nisi nikad ni dobar, eventualno si flip protiv 88 type handa. A dead moneya s obzirom na to koliki mu je shove praktički nema.

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00

192

Re: NL5 Full Ring

ugl. foldao sam ali tek u zadnjim sekundama jer sam probao izracunati odse
ali nisam daleko stigao, nisam jos taj kapacitet  smile

00

193

Re: NL5 Full Ring

lik na 30 handova igra 59-30 af 3,2
WTSD 64%
da je izaslo srce ili 8 ili J drugacije bilo bi jednostavnije mozda
ovako mislim da trebam gurnuti???

____________________                  

Holdem Manager, No-Limit Hold'em Ring
Small Blind: $0.02
Big Blind: $0.04

SB ($1.82)
BB ($4.08)
UTG ($4.1)
CO (idrgaHRV) ($3.92)
BTN ($3.29)

Dealt to CO (idrgaHRV)
http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/9S.png http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/9C.png

Preflop: (Pot is: $0.06)

UTG folds, CO (idrgaHRV) raises to $0.12, BTN calls $0.12, SB & BB fold

Flop: (Pot is $0.3, 2 players)

http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/TC.png http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/2H.png http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/9H.png
CO (idrgaHRV) bets $0.22, BTN calls $0.22

Turn: (Pot is $0.74, 2 players)

http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/TC.png http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/2H.png http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/9H.png    http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/7S.png
CO (idrgaHRV) bets $0.64, BTN raises to $1.28

River: (Pot is $2.66, 2 players)


                                                                     
Total Pot: $2.66 | Rake: $2.66




00

Re: NL5 Full Ring

ship!

00

195

Re: NL5 Full Ring

ovo mi je najgori mjesec ikad ali evo ne odustajem
jel ovo ship na flopu?

____________________                  

Holdem Manager, No-Limit Hold'em Ring
Small Blind: $0.02
Big Blind: $0.04

MP ($1.21)
CO ($3.62)
BTN (idrgaHRV) ($4.56)
SB ($3.97)
BB ($0.96)
UTG ($4.35)

Dealt to BTN (idrgaHRV)
http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/9H.png http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/AH.png

Preflop: (Pot is: $0.06)

UTG & MP & CO fold, BTN (idrgaHRV) raises to $0.08, SB raises to $0.12, BB calls $0.08, BTN (idrgaHRV) calls $0.04

Flop: (Pot is $0.36, 3 players)

http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/7S.png http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/6C.png http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/8H.png
SB checks, BB bets $0.36

Turn: (Pot is $0.72, 3 players)


River: (Pot is $0.72, 3 players)


                                                                     
Total Pot: $0.72 | Rake: $0.72




00

196

Re: NL5 Full Ring

i sta u ovom spotu napraviti, tj. zanima me kako ovo odigrati bolje
na riveru znam da sam beatan...
s obzirom na statse ovog lika na CO
na 270 handova igra 24-15 AF 1,8  RCO-29 % cbet 60 %

____________________                  

Holdem Manager, No-Limit Hold'em Ring
Small Blind: $0.02
Big Blind: $0.04

BTN (idrgaHRV) ($4)
SB ($4.42)
BB ($3.6)
UTG ($7.12)
MP ($0.04)
CO ($4)

Dealt to BTN (idrgaHRV)
http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/KS.png http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/QS.png

Preflop: (Pot is: $0.06)

UTG folds, MP calls $0.04 (All-In), CO raises to $0.14, BTN (idrgaHRV) calls $0.14, SB folds, BB calls $0.1

Flop: (Pot is $0.48, 4 players, 1 all-in)

http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/TD.png http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/QD.png http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/3H.png
BB checks, CO bets $0.36, BTN (idrgaHRV) calls $0.36, BB folds

Turn: (Pot is $1.2, 3 players, 1 all-in)

http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/TD.png http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/QD.png http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/3H.png    http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/3C.png
CO bets $0.9, BTN (idrgaHRV) calls $0.9

River: (Pot is $3, 3 players, 1 all-in)

http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/TD.png http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/QD.png http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/3H.png http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/3C.png   http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/AC.png
CO bets $2.6 (All-In)

                                                                     
Total Pot: $5.6 | Rake: $5.6

Zadnji popravljao idrga (10-02-2012 16:23:11)

00

197

Re: NL5 Full Ring

1. nemreš shipati kad imaš još SB iza sebe
2. fold. ima missani fd, al često je Ax fd ili KJ itd tako da si često beatan tu. Ok je odigrano.

Nowdays, at financial crisis, I dont give people to much kredit for second and third barrel!
00

198

Re: NL5 Full Ring

pozdrav, dugo me nije bilo jer se borim sa ribama na entractionu a tamo je sve jasno sto
se handova tice smile
evo jedan sa starsa gdje je uvijek zanimljivo
lik igra na 90 handova 22-17 af 5,5 3bet 6,1 sa bb 14%
sta na flopu i koji je njegov calling range tu...sumljam da mi folda ako betam 1/3 pota
a ako betam jace  onda se komitam

____________________                  

Holdem Manager, No-Limit Hold'em Ring
Small Blind: $0.02
Big Blind: $0.05

SB (idrga) ($5)
BB ($17.06)
UTG ($5.44)
CO ($5.43)
BTN ($5.14)

Dealt to SB (idrga)
http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/QC.png http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/QD.png

Preflop: (Pot is: $0.07)

UTG & CO & BTN fold, SB (idrga) raises to $0.15, BB raises to $0.45, SB (idrga) raises to $1.35, BB calls $0.9

Flop: (Pot is $2.7, 2 players)

http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/5S.png http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/AD.png http://hr.pokerpro.cc/forum/extensions/hand_history_converter/HandHistoryConverter/images/7H.png

Turn: (Pot is $2.7, 2 players)


River: (Pot is $2.7, 2 players)


                                                                     
Total Pot: $2.7 | Rake: $2.7




00

199

Re: NL5 Full Ring

idrga napisao:

betam 1/3 pota

b/f... ako chekiras hand ti je face up... ako ima AK jbg, foldat ce sve ostalo sto mu je tu neki calling range (JJ+ valjda) osim AA obv...

A svako gubi bar ponekad, ali nikad Boža zvani Pub

200

Re: NL5 Full Ring

ovo sam vidio na jednom forumu pa me zanima sta bi vi tu....ovaj sb igra 27-22-6,8

BTN: $16.99 (169.9 bb)
SB: $15.24 (152.4 bb)
Hero (BB): $10 (100 bb)
UTG: $18.94 (189.4 bb)
MP: $12.10 (121 bb)
CO: $10.04 (100.4 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A A
UTG calls $0.10, 3 folds, SB completes, Hero raises to $0.50, UTG calls $0.40, SB calls $0.40

Flop: ($1.50) 9 3 5 (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $1.40, UTG calls $1.40, SB calls $1.40

Turn: ($5.70) 7 (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $3.65, UTG calls $3.65, SB raises to $13.34 and is all-in, Hero calls $4.45 and is all-in, UTG folds

River: ($25.55) J (2 players, 2 are all-in)

00